2¢ From the desk of the incumbent Field Day Chairman
My focus, my understanding of the focus this field day, is to score more points: more butts in seats at radios, more of the time, with antennae that function as advertised. I've been reading and pondering these emails all weekend long. I appreciate all the input, the legwork, and web searches that have ensued. I plan on visiting alternate locations tomorrow, when it's warmer. Some thoughts and responses in no particular order, from this operator: To achieve the goal of more points, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. We've put up the 160 over the field behind and we can put up more antennae there since we now know that it belongs to the Legion. We can drive on and park on the grass, within reason. Think crank-up tower. The Legion Hall is a known quantity and quality: 1 phone call, 1 check, and 2 visits to pick up and return the key. Value pricing. I like the sanitation of running water and restrooms. I have a radio there that strangers are touching. We need power for more than just the operating radios: several operators used monitors, laptops, the wifi for the reporting system. the reporting monitor, and food preparation and storage. As for noise, take the party outside. The only people down the steps into the hall should be the operators and visitors to see the operators and radios. Set up tents and tables outside to serve the food, to dispense water and sodas, to mill around and socialize, to sign into the guest book. 6 radios, a few of them doing FT-8, and the others with headphones, should not be making enough noise to disrupt each other-it's the party on the other side of the room that's noisy. Are cicadas, crickets, and traffic easier to manage, noise-wise, than people? No one complains about the acoustics or noise when it's just radio operators at 2 am. I don't want to spend the first 2-3 hours of my 30+hour run counting on the seamless erection of tents and shelters. Let's spend that time and energy on the antennae, radio set-up, and operating. We can have radios and everything operating inside and still be organizing food service, tents/shelters outside. Radios/antennae need to be functional by 1400. Food can wait until 1700 or 1800. Same with teardown. Weather... we keep getting lucky. Can we count on that luck continuing? A/C. Before filter purchases, let's configure what antennae we'll be using and where we'll be placing them. If we are working off multiple antennae, as we have discussed, we can split up the filters we have differently and re-consider how we set up radios inside. If we split the filters/duplexer/triplexer we have, run the coax in from the back door instead of the window, we can separate the operating stations and reduce the concentrated noise level inside. Or run one coax for one set of filters in the window and one feed from the back door, commandeer what is now the food/social table area for radios and give the operators more individual and separated space. My 2¢ KD8SLG/Nick Silvercreek Amateur Radio Association kd8slg@gmail.com 412-779-1717 W8WKY FM analog 147.390+ PL114.8 /Allstar #48496 W8WKY FM digital 442.275 + D-Star, C4FM, DMR #311070 Wires-X room 80134 / 40557
Nick I fully agree. Keep the operators inside and the noise outside or flip it around and do the opposite. Set up a circus tent and tables and keep all the visitors and BS sessions outside. And if you are careful with antenna placement and disperse the antennas you can dispense with filters as well. My club ran Field Day for 15 years without any filters with only one year having an interference problem on 40 meters. On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 4:38 PM Nick Traweek via Field Day Tech < fd-tech@w8wky.org> wrote:
My focus, my understanding of the focus this field day, is to score more points: more butts in seats at radios, more of the time, with antennae that function as advertised.
I've been reading and pondering these emails all weekend long. I appreciate all the input, the legwork, and web searches that have ensued. I plan on visiting alternate locations tomorrow, when it's warmer.
Some thoughts and responses in no particular order, from this operator:
To achieve the goal of more points, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel.
We've put up the 160 over the field behind and we can put up more antennae there since we now know that it belongs to the Legion. We can drive on and park on the grass, within reason. Think crank-up tower.
The Legion Hall is a known quantity and quality: 1 phone call, 1 check, and 2 visits to pick up and return the key. Value pricing.
I like the sanitation of running water and restrooms. I have a radio there that strangers are touching.
We need power for more than just the operating radios: several operators used monitors, laptops, the wifi for the reporting system. the reporting monitor, and food preparation and storage.
As for noise, take the party outside. The only people down the steps into the hall should be the operators and visitors to see the operators and radios. Set up tents and tables outside to serve the food, to dispense water and sodas, to mill around and socialize, to sign into the guest book. 6 radios, a few of them doing FT-8, and the others with headphones, should not be making enough noise to disrupt each other-it's the party on the other side of the room that's noisy. Are cicadas, crickets, and traffic easier to manage, noise-wise, than people? No one complains about the acoustics or noise when it's just radio operators at 2 am.
I don't want to spend the first 2-3 hours of my 30+hour run counting on the seamless erection of tents and shelters. Let's spend that time and energy on the antennae, radio set-up, and operating. We can have radios and everything operating inside and still be organizing food service, tents/shelters outside. Radios/antennae need to be functional by 1400. Food can wait until 1700 or 1800. Same with teardown.
Weather... we keep getting lucky. Can we count on that luck continuing?
A/C.
Before filter purchases, let's configure what antennae we'll be using and where we'll be placing them.
If we are working off multiple antennae, as we have discussed, we can split up the filters we have differently and re-consider how we set up radios inside. If we split the filters/duplexer/triplexer we have, run the coax in from the back door instead of the window, we can separate the operating stations and reduce the concentrated noise level inside. Or run one coax for one set of filters in the window and one feed from the back door, commandeer what is now the food/social table area for radios and give the operators more individual and separated space.
My 2¢
KD8SLG/Nick
Silvercreek Amateur Radio Association
kd8slg@gmail.com 412-779-1717
W8WKY FM analog 147.390+ PL114.8 /Allstar #48496
W8WKY FM digital 442.275 + D-Star, C4FM, DMR #311070
Wires-X room 80134 / 40557
_______________________________________________ Field Day Tech mailing list -- fd-tech@w8wky.org To unsubscribe send an email to fd-tech-leave@w8wky.org
I don't think it would be practical to put operating inside and then tell everyone else to stay outside. There's too much history of people milling around inside, plus food, etc. Also, even if they're inside, it's stil a noisy room just because it's a concrete bunker. We either need to commit to putting the operators outside in the back or get serious with sound deadening. If we have a good plan and have practiced/prepared in advance, setup really shouldn't take that long. Last year, we had a lot of problems with the push-up mast because someone flipped it around after I laid it out. Plus now that we're not trying to raise a full antenna up with it, it should go right up. Setting that thing up is really only a 2-3 person job. With that and the crank-up mast, assembly should be pretty quick and straight forward. That would leave time to setup sound deadening. If we have well-planned teams with good leaders and directions and people who follow them, we have more than enough people to setup even a complicated system. There are distinct advantages to being inside, notably us being 100% impervious to the weather. Setting up a well-engineered sound-deadening partition shouldn't be any more laborious than setting up tents, flooring, sides, etc. Let me ask it this way, is there anyone who REALLY DOESN'T want to return to the legion hall? Jason ________________________________ From: Bill Storr via Field Day Tech <fd-tech@w8wky.org> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2024 4:41 PM To: Field Day Technologies Discussion <fd-tech@w8wky.org> Cc: Bill Storr <n8ltr55@gmail.com> Subject: [Field Day Tech] Re: 2¢ From the desk of the incumbent Field Day Chairman Nick I fully agree. Keep the operators inside and the noise outside or flip it around and do the opposite. Set up a circus tent and tables and keep all the visitors and BS sessions outside. And if you are careful with antenna placement and disperse the antennas you can dispense with filters as well. My club ran Field Day for 15 years without any filters with only one year having an interference problem on 40 meters. On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 4:38 PM Nick Traweek via Field Day Tech <fd-tech@w8wky.org<mailto:fd-tech@w8wky.org>> wrote: My focus, my understanding of the focus this field day, is to score more points: more butts in seats at radios, more of the time, with antennae that function as advertised. I've been reading and pondering these emails all weekend long. I appreciate all the input, the legwork, and web searches that have ensued. I plan on visiting alternate locations tomorrow, when it's warmer. Some thoughts and responses in no particular order, from this operator: To achieve the goal of more points, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. We've put up the 160 over the field behind and we can put up more antennae there since we now know that it belongs to the Legion. We can drive on and park on the grass, within reason. Think crank-up tower. The Legion Hall is a known quantity and quality: 1 phone call, 1 check, and 2 visits to pick up and return the key. Value pricing. I like the sanitation of running water and restrooms. I have a radio there that strangers are touching. We need power for more than just the operating radios: several operators used monitors, laptops, the wifi for the reporting system. the reporting monitor, and food preparation and storage. As for noise, take the party outside. The only people down the steps into the hall should be the operators and visitors to see the operators and radios. Set up tents and tables outside to serve the food, to dispense water and sodas, to mill around and socialize, to sign into the guest book. 6 radios, a few of them doing FT-8, and the others with headphones, should not be making enough noise to disrupt each other-it's the party on the other side of the room that's noisy. Are cicadas, crickets, and traffic easier to manage, noise-wise, than people? No one complains about the acoustics or noise when it's just radio operators at 2 am. I don't want to spend the first 2-3 hours of my 30+hour run counting on the seamless erection of tents and shelters. Let's spend that time and energy on the antennae, radio set-up, and operating. We can have radios and everything operating inside and still be organizing food service, tents/shelters outside. Radios/antennae need to be functional by 1400. Food can wait until 1700 or 1800. Same with teardown. Weather... we keep getting lucky. Can we count on that luck continuing? A/C. Before filter purchases, let's configure what antennae we'll be using and where we'll be placing them. If we are working off multiple antennae, as we have discussed, we can split up the filters we have differently and re-consider how we set up radios inside. If we split the filters/duplexer/triplexer we have, run the coax in from the back door instead of the window, we can separate the operating stations and reduce the concentrated noise level inside. Or run one coax for one set of filters in the window and one feed from the back door, commandeer what is now the food/social table area for radios and give the operators more individual and separated space. My 2¢ KD8SLG/Nick Silvercreek Amateur Radio Association [https://w8wky.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SARA_ARRL_Transparent_Bg.png] kd8slg@gmail.com<mailto:kd8slg@gmail.com> 412-779-1717 W8WKY FM analog 147.390+ PL114.8 /Allstar #48496 W8WKY FM digital 442.275 + D-Star, C4FM, DMR #311070 Wires-X room 80134 / 40557 _______________________________________________ Field Day Tech mailing list -- fd-tech@w8wky.org<mailto:fd-tech@w8wky.org> To unsubscribe send an email to fd-tech-leave@w8wky.org<mailto:fd-tech-leave@w8wky.org>
Regarding filtering, there's no reason not to use what we already have. For example, we had really good success in 2019 with a fan dipole on 80/40/20 that worked great with our setup. It was mine, and I still have it - minus a few of the spreader bars. We could also purchase a commercial one. So, for example, we could run a 80/40/20 multi-op setup with one long coax run out into the field to the (full wave? I forget) fan dipole. Similarly, we could share a 20/15/10 on what we have. Or just a 15/10. Lots of options. Regarding the number of operator stations, we've historically just claimed our number to be however many transceivers we have hooked up to operate. I'm fine doing less, but I also don't think that we should get anything into complicated like having 6 radios hooked up and trying to operate only 4 at a time and have to trade off who is transmitting. I don't know that we have enough discipline and/or interest in organizing to have that detailed of an operations plan. I DO think that we need to get people commit to operating and show up for their slot. Jason ________________________________ From: Bill Storr via Field Day Tech <fd-tech@w8wky.org> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2024 4:41 PM To: Field Day Technologies Discussion <fd-tech@w8wky.org> Cc: Bill Storr <n8ltr55@gmail.com> Subject: [Field Day Tech] Re: 2¢ From the desk of the incumbent Field Day Chairman Nick I fully agree. Keep the operators inside and the noise outside or flip it around and do the opposite. Set up a circus tent and tables and keep all the visitors and BS sessions outside. And if you are careful with antenna placement and disperse the antennas you can dispense with filters as well. My club ran Field Day for 15 years without any filters with only one year having an interference problem on 40 meters. On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 4:38 PM Nick Traweek via Field Day Tech <fd-tech@w8wky.org<mailto:fd-tech@w8wky.org>> wrote: My focus, my understanding of the focus this field day, is to score more points: more butts in seats at radios, more of the time, with antennae that function as advertised. I've been reading and pondering these emails all weekend long. I appreciate all the input, the legwork, and web searches that have ensued. I plan on visiting alternate locations tomorrow, when it's warmer. Some thoughts and responses in no particular order, from this operator: To achieve the goal of more points, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel. We've put up the 160 over the field behind and we can put up more antennae there since we now know that it belongs to the Legion. We can drive on and park on the grass, within reason. Think crank-up tower. The Legion Hall is a known quantity and quality: 1 phone call, 1 check, and 2 visits to pick up and return the key. Value pricing. I like the sanitation of running water and restrooms. I have a radio there that strangers are touching. We need power for more than just the operating radios: several operators used monitors, laptops, the wifi for the reporting system. the reporting monitor, and food preparation and storage. As for noise, take the party outside. The only people down the steps into the hall should be the operators and visitors to see the operators and radios. Set up tents and tables outside to serve the food, to dispense water and sodas, to mill around and socialize, to sign into the guest book. 6 radios, a few of them doing FT-8, and the others with headphones, should not be making enough noise to disrupt each other-it's the party on the other side of the room that's noisy. Are cicadas, crickets, and traffic easier to manage, noise-wise, than people? No one complains about the acoustics or noise when it's just radio operators at 2 am. I don't want to spend the first 2-3 hours of my 30+hour run counting on the seamless erection of tents and shelters. Let's spend that time and energy on the antennae, radio set-up, and operating. We can have radios and everything operating inside and still be organizing food service, tents/shelters outside. Radios/antennae need to be functional by 1400. Food can wait until 1700 or 1800. Same with teardown. Weather... we keep getting lucky. Can we count on that luck continuing? A/C. Before filter purchases, let's configure what antennae we'll be using and where we'll be placing them. If we are working off multiple antennae, as we have discussed, we can split up the filters we have differently and re-consider how we set up radios inside. If we split the filters/duplexer/triplexer we have, run the coax in from the back door instead of the window, we can separate the operating stations and reduce the concentrated noise level inside. Or run one coax for one set of filters in the window and one feed from the back door, commandeer what is now the food/social table area for radios and give the operators more individual and separated space. My 2¢ KD8SLG/Nick Silvercreek Amateur Radio Association [https://w8wky.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/SARA_ARRL_Transparent_Bg.png] kd8slg@gmail.com<mailto:kd8slg@gmail.com> 412-779-1717 W8WKY FM analog 147.390+ PL114.8 /Allstar #48496 W8WKY FM digital 442.275 + D-Star, C4FM, DMR #311070 Wires-X room 80134 / 40557 _______________________________________________ Field Day Tech mailing list -- fd-tech@w8wky.org<mailto:fd-tech@w8wky.org> To unsubscribe send an email to fd-tech-leave@w8wky.org<mailto:fd-tech-leave@w8wky.org>
Sign-up sheets. Period. On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 7:06 PM Jason McCormick via Field Day Tech < fd-tech@w8wky.org> wrote:
Regarding filtering, there's no reason not to use what we already have. For example, we had really good success in 2019 with a fan dipole on 80/40/20 that worked great with our setup. It was mine, and I still have it - minus a few of the spreader bars. We could also purchase a commercial one. So, for example, we could run a 80/40/20 multi-op setup with one long coax run out into the field to the (full wave? I forget) fan dipole. Similarly, we could share a 20/15/10 on what we have. Or just a 15/10. Lots of options.
Regarding the number of operator stations, we've historically just claimed our number to be however many transceivers we have hooked up to operate. I'm fine doing less, but I also don't think that we should get anything into complicated like having 6 radios hooked up and trying to operate only 4 at a time and have to trade off who is transmitting. I don't know that we have enough discipline and/or interest in organizing to have that detailed of an operations plan.
I DO think that we need to get people commit to operating and show up for their slot.
Jason
------------------------------ *From:* Bill Storr via Field Day Tech <fd-tech@w8wky.org> *Sent:* Sunday, February 18, 2024 4:41 PM *To:* Field Day Technologies Discussion <fd-tech@w8wky.org> *Cc:* Bill Storr <n8ltr55@gmail.com> *Subject:* [Field Day Tech] Re: 2¢ From the desk of the incumbent Field Day Chairman
Nick I fully agree. Keep the operators inside and the noise outside or flip it around and do the opposite. Set up a circus tent and tables and keep all the visitors and BS sessions outside.
And if you are careful with antenna placement and disperse the antennas you can dispense with filters as well. My club ran Field Day for 15 years without any filters with only one year having an interference problem on 40 meters.
On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 4:38 PM Nick Traweek via Field Day Tech < fd-tech@w8wky.org> wrote:
My focus, my understanding of the focus this field day, is to score more points: more butts in seats at radios, more of the time, with antennae that function as advertised.
I've been reading and pondering these emails all weekend long. I appreciate all the input, the legwork, and web searches that have ensued. I plan on visiting alternate locations tomorrow, when it's warmer.
Some thoughts and responses in no particular order, from this operator:
To achieve the goal of more points, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel.
We've put up the 160 over the field behind and we can put up more antennae there since we now know that it belongs to the Legion. We can drive on and park on the grass, within reason. Think crank-up tower.
The Legion Hall is a known quantity and quality: 1 phone call, 1 check, and 2 visits to pick up and return the key. Value pricing.
I like the sanitation of running water and restrooms. I have a radio there that strangers are touching.
We need power for more than just the operating radios: several operators used monitors, laptops, the wifi for the reporting system. the reporting monitor, and food preparation and storage.
As for noise, take the party outside. The only people down the steps into the hall should be the operators and visitors to see the operators and radios. Set up tents and tables outside to serve the food, to dispense water and sodas, to mill around and socialize, to sign into the guest book. 6 radios, a few of them doing FT-8, and the others with headphones, should not be making enough noise to disrupt each other-it's the party on the other side of the room that's noisy. Are cicadas, crickets, and traffic easier to manage, noise-wise, than people? No one complains about the acoustics or noise when it's just radio operators at 2 am.
I don't want to spend the first 2-3 hours of my 30+hour run counting on the seamless erection of tents and shelters. Let's spend that time and energy on the antennae, radio set-up, and operating. We can have radios and everything operating inside and still be organizing food service, tents/shelters outside. Radios/antennae need to be functional by 1400. Food can wait until 1700 or 1800. Same with teardown.
Weather... we keep getting lucky. Can we count on that luck continuing?
A/C.
Before filter purchases, let's configure what antennae we'll be using and where we'll be placing them.
If we are working off multiple antennae, as we have discussed, we can split up the filters we have differently and re-consider how we set up radios inside. If we split the filters/duplexer/triplexer we have, run the coax in from the back door instead of the window, we can separate the operating stations and reduce the concentrated noise level inside. Or run one coax for one set of filters in the window and one feed from the back door, commandeer what is now the food/social table area for radios and give the operators more individual and separated space.
My 2¢
KD8SLG/Nick
Silvercreek Amateur Radio Association
kd8slg@gmail.com 412-779-1717
W8WKY FM analog 147.390+ PL114.8 /Allstar #48496
W8WKY FM digital 442.275 + D-Star, C4FM, DMR #311070
Wires-X room 80134 / 40557
_______________________________________________ Field Day Tech mailing list -- fd-tech@w8wky.org To unsubscribe send an email to fd-tech-leave@w8wky.org
_______________________________________________ Field Day Tech mailing list -- fd-tech@w8wky.org To unsubscribe send an email to fd-tech-leave@w8wky.org
-- KD8SLG/Nick Silvercreek Amateur Radio Association kd8slg@gmail.com 412-779-1717 W8WKY FM analog 147.390+ PL114.8 /Allstar #48496 W8WKY FM digital 442.275 + D-Star, C4FM, DMR #311070 Wires-X room 80134 / 40557
And one more thing as stated in our introductory team meeting: We shouldn't set up more transmitters than we feel that we can man around the clock continuously and successfully. In the past we were much more successful in my old club limiting us to 4-5 Alpha then when we tried to run 7 or 8 Alpha. When I toured our operating tents at midnight, inevitably around 3, maybe four transmitters were in operation by that time. Other people had shut down and gone to sleep or gone off site for the evening. On Sun, Feb 18, 2024, 4:38 PM Nick Traweek via Field Day Tech < fd-tech@w8wky.org> wrote:
My focus, my understanding of the focus this field day, is to score more points: more butts in seats at radios, more of the time, with antennae that function as advertised.
I've been reading and pondering these emails all weekend long. I appreciate all the input, the legwork, and web searches that have ensued. I plan on visiting alternate locations tomorrow, when it's warmer.
Some thoughts and responses in no particular order, from this operator:
To achieve the goal of more points, I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel.
We've put up the 160 over the field behind and we can put up more antennae there since we now know that it belongs to the Legion. We can drive on and park on the grass, within reason. Think crank-up tower.
The Legion Hall is a known quantity and quality: 1 phone call, 1 check, and 2 visits to pick up and return the key. Value pricing.
I like the sanitation of running water and restrooms. I have a radio there that strangers are touching.
We need power for more than just the operating radios: several operators used monitors, laptops, the wifi for the reporting system. the reporting monitor, and food preparation and storage.
As for noise, take the party outside. The only people down the steps into the hall should be the operators and visitors to see the operators and radios. Set up tents and tables outside to serve the food, to dispense water and sodas, to mill around and socialize, to sign into the guest book. 6 radios, a few of them doing FT-8, and the others with headphones, should not be making enough noise to disrupt each other-it's the party on the other side of the room that's noisy. Are cicadas, crickets, and traffic easier to manage, noise-wise, than people? No one complains about the acoustics or noise when it's just radio operators at 2 am.
I don't want to spend the first 2-3 hours of my 30+hour run counting on the seamless erection of tents and shelters. Let's spend that time and energy on the antennae, radio set-up, and operating. We can have radios and everything operating inside and still be organizing food service, tents/shelters outside. Radios/antennae need to be functional by 1400. Food can wait until 1700 or 1800. Same with teardown.
Weather... we keep getting lucky. Can we count on that luck continuing?
A/C.
Before filter purchases, let's configure what antennae we'll be using and where we'll be placing them.
If we are working off multiple antennae, as we have discussed, we can split up the filters we have differently and re-consider how we set up radios inside. If we split the filters/duplexer/triplexer we have, run the coax in from the back door instead of the window, we can separate the operating stations and reduce the concentrated noise level inside. Or run one coax for one set of filters in the window and one feed from the back door, commandeer what is now the food/social table area for radios and give the operators more individual and separated space.
My 2¢
KD8SLG/Nick
Silvercreek Amateur Radio Association
kd8slg@gmail.com 412-779-1717
W8WKY FM analog 147.390+ PL114.8 /Allstar #48496
W8WKY FM digital 442.275 + D-Star, C4FM, DMR #311070
Wires-X room 80134 / 40557
_______________________________________________ Field Day Tech mailing list -- fd-tech@w8wky.org To unsubscribe send an email to fd-tech-leave@w8wky.org
participants (3)
-
Bill Storr -
Jason McCormick -
Nick Traweek